User talk:Kim

Hi all. I made my first spelling correction today. Woo hoo. I will occasionally drift through to do that while I learn my way around if that's ok. Kim

• You mean (in my enthusiasm) I made a spelling mistake? :) Thanks Kim, It takes a while to get the concept of this wiki down, but it will come. One tip --- If you wish to sign your name to anything, just placing 4 'tildes'(`) will put your name and a date stamp like I will do at the end of this. Also, anytime you wish to know if someone has responded or changed anything on any page, you can check 'watch this page.' Then by clicking on your watch list at the top, you will see. Dypsisdean 13:42, 21 May 2007 (PDT)
• Note: If you don't get a photo or short intro up on your user page, someone might do it for you. :) Dypsisdean 13:42, 21 May 2007 (PDT)

Uh oh. : ) I'll work on the intro. Trying your tilde tip.Kim 15:29, 21 May 2007 (PDT)

• You're a fast learner. I wish everyone was. :) Dypsisdean 15:38, 21 May 2007 (PDT)

You're catching on

I can 'see' you struggling along. I am still learning a lot of things myself. This on the job training is hit and miss. Go to my talk page. I answered your latest question there. Dypsisdean 18:13, 21 May 2007 (PDT)

• I think I misunderstood your question now that I see you used an external link to your Jubaea pic. Click edit and notice the syntax I used to give you a clickable thumbnail with a caption after I uploaded your photo to the wiki using the 'Upload file' link on the left of every page. Dypsisdean 18:21, 21 May 2007 (PDT)

Missing file

I went to 'Special Pages'/'Unused files' and found your self portrait there. I could have deleted it, but decided to let you see if you can find it and do it. :) It was #89, but that could change if more photos are uploaded. Dypsisdean 13:10, 22 May 2007 (PDT)

• Kim, that was it. You were not able to delete images. Only sysops can. Once you get the hang of everything, I can make you one, because you are obviously not as "thick" as you think you are. :) Dypsisdean 13:52, 22 May 2007 (PDT)

• Sysops? Noooooooooo! (Insert photo of Edvard Munch's The Scream) Hmmm, when I examine your motivation, I wonder if you are the competitive type. Kim 14:15, 22 May 2007 (PDT)
• Competitive??? Yes..... But only in things that lend themselves to competition. I guess I need something palmy to do when it's raining. If you want a laugh, listen to one of my "experiments." I was trying to figure out how to do a real audio interview with Gary Levine about his Madagascar trip. Go to "Resources" on the Main Page and click on it. You should then see a link to "Interview with Gary Levine." Dypsisdean 14:27, 22 May 2007 (PDT)

• I listened to that yesterday. I am reasonably certain that the, uh, interviewer, uh, was the same person as the, uh, uh, the, uh, interviewee. That was pretty funny. Especially when you got to the Richard Nixon comparison. I was going to write a comment: "What the hell..???" But I didn't think you'd appreciate it. Kim 14:38, 22 May 2007 (PDT)
• Where were you when I needed you, in English 101? Dypsisdean 00:08, 8 June 2007 (PDT)
• Mmmm, probably hiding out in French 411. Is more written content coming? I wonder why people who write a lot on the palm board aren't writing here. Are people concerned about giving away potentially valuable information for free? I can see if someone were writing a palm book why they might not come in. One section I don't quite understand is the species zone scale. If I can grow Howea forsteriana, but not Areca vestiara, does that mean I should add the species I grow successfully to zone #3B? It almost seems like it should have a horizontal component as well as a vertical component, arid to humid. Too complicated? Kim 12:59, 8 June 2007 (PDT)
• I think most people are intimidated by the format. They see funny symbols and freak. Also, you would be surprised how many people are too afraid, or too internet challenged, that have asked, "Are you going to have a list of palms someday?" To which I reply, "Did you click on the link after the big rotating green arrow that says "click here?"......."Oh"
• The SZS is an attempt to quantify something that I think is unquantifiable. I thought if you could have a scale by relative hardiness, it would apply for any specific area and be more universal than the present zone system. The temp approach is so subjective and so open to bad data from bad temp readings, that we only have a semi successful system anyway. In your example, Zone 4 has A. vestiaria as the middle of the range with Kentia at the very beginning. Zone 4 was a tough one because I couldn't come up with a common palm that would represent the middle of the range. The idea was to have an easy way for new growers to pick palms. If they drove around their neighbohood and saw Kings, but no Kentias, then they could go to the SZS and pick any palms that were farther up/down the scale from Kings, assuming for sure that anything appearing as more tender than Kentias would certainly be a no go. Presently people look at a palm and like it, only to look up the requirements and see they can't grow it. This way they could easily find a limiting palm for their area, and anything appearing as more hardy, they could choose from. It will be a difficult project, but there was so much interest in the freeze thread at PT that I thought it a good way to organize all that data. In the future, to address your humidity issue, perhaps we could have a "data engine" that would help you pick a palm for your area, based on proximity to ocean, soil, high temp, low temp, humidity, rarity, palmate/pinnate, etc. Kind of like on line shopping when you pick a refrigerator. You first select your price range, then your size, then side by side or otherwise, then color, until you get a list of your remaining options. A lot of work, but probably very useful.
• Too much to do all at once. I have a new bigger better server all ready to go, I think. I'm testing it today. So if the site is down in the next few days, the address is just being transfered. If you continue to have problems, empty your cache, and try again. BTW --- I'm in town until Wed. Dypsisdean 11:05, 8 June 2007 (PDT)
• You're in town? San Diego? Hey if you happen to get downtown, stop by my office, I'll take you to lunch. We can talk about the market and palms. Kim 12:59, 8 June 2007 (PDT)
• As far as the SZS and a data engine for palm shoppers, didn't Jungle Music add something like that to their web site? I haven't used it, I guess I should check it out.
• I had a large short position Mon, Tues, and Wed. Too bad I closed it out Wed at the close. But then again, would I have been smart enough to have sold it on Thurs. at the close? Probably not. Talk about volatility. :)
• I'm only here for 5 days, or else I would take you up on that offer. Thanks though, I'll take a rain check. I haven't been downtown in a decade. I have a very full schedule at this point. I did hear that Phil has a palm shoppers guide of some sort. I haven't checked it out either. I will tonight. I am going by to visit him tomorrow. Dypsisdean 12:42, 8 June 2007 (PDT)
• Well the shorts are certainly covering today ahead of the weekend. You did well enough as it was. Never be greedy. : ) 5 days is a quick trip, some other time. What brings you to SD? Kim 12:59, 8 June 2007 (PDT)

Hi Kim!

Hey just pokin' around and saw you. Howdy! The zoom is cool, you can see every little morsel on our plates!hahaMattyB 15:34, 8 June 2007 (PDT)

Motley Crew

Hi MattyB!

• I have to learn to do that trick. Or is it automatic with any uploaded pic? Your plate looks especially tasty in the foreground. How 'bout that smirk on Bill's face?

How's the house coming? Are you out of boxes yet? Put some more comments about palms you grow on this site, it's a little bare, info-wise. Kim 17:19, 8 June 2007 (PDT)

• Kim, different browsers handle the zoom differently. And then it may depend on the settings you have it set for, as in size to fit, or actual size. Usually it either happens automatically or you may have to click the photo once or twice more. Classic shot whether zooming or not. Dypsisdean 21:07, 8 June 2007 (PDT)
• Thanks for the props on the P.elegans post. It's starting to become real fun when all the links are available to slide through to other dimensions......oh wait...that's something else I'm working on.MattyB 10:14, 13 June 2007 (PDT)

What happened???

Hey, how come you decided to delete your comments about the slideshow over on the other page? I was just getting ready to answer you. :-)

Something New

Kim, Do you have the Quick Time player on your computer? If you do, I have something for you to watch. Dypsisdean 12:56, 18 July 2007 (PDT) I can try, but I doubt it will work here at the office. Some things get filtered out here, like the birds you emailed, but I never know. What is it? The suspense is killing me...Kim 14:06, 18 July 2007 (PDT)

• Oh Oh, It's not worth the suspense. I just thought it was kinda neat because it can easily explain to people how to do things on the wiki, and elsewhere. It's called a screencast. But most don't know what that is. It will take about a full minute to download and then play if you have QuickTime. If the birds didn't work this probably won't either. Give me a good address to send the birds to, and I will. So, try this: Screencast
• If it looks like it is just sitting there, it may be loading. Otherwise, try it at home. Dypsisdean 15:57, 18 July 2007 (PDT)
• Well that is pretty cool. You are quite the geek. ; ) It works fine at home (as do the birds) but not at work, for obvious reasons. I have seen a tutorial like this once before on another site; it can be very helpful if people will actually look at it. (I was trying to click on bill pay on the upper part of the screen and have you pay all my bills, but it didn't work!! Rats...)Kim 17:03, 18 July 2007 (PDT)

Page Spelling, etc.

• Hey, Not sure if you caught my explanation about the spelling changes and broken links over on my talk page. It's easy to miss communiques here. I answered your question there. Are you going to the PSSC meeting? FYI --- I have approached elHoagie, and will talk with others about putting the PSSC Journal online in Palmpedia. Maybe just a teaser article each month, or complete older Journals. It would help get traffic here, and should help boost PSSC membership if those around the world see the quality of the publication. Jack says they have been thinking about it for their own site, but it's a lot of work. IMO, they are thinking of doing it in pdf format, which I hate. The wiki would be great. Very easy, and configurable, and could include inside and outside links to all sorts of places on the PSSC site and/or the IPS site if they ever get theirs going.
• Anyway, I was just letting you know because you are one of the few who have gotten a taste of the potential of the wiki. So in case you are going to the meeting and hear anything, (or talk to anyone in the future), you can chime in. I suggested letting me post one article and see how it works for Palmpedia and the PSSC. Dypsisdean 13:49, 20 July 2007 (PDT)
• Yes, I caught the explanation, hope to experiment with it some evening soon. I will need many windows open: metric converter, BBC Kew list, and two palmpedia windows to work. I would like to get through the whole list and be done with it. Then just edit new material as it comes in.
• I like your journal idea, but I have no influence with the board, and I will not be there tomorrow. The best reason to put the journal online is it can be distributed faster. They are always behind on publication. This way they could get it out online and follow up with the print version.
• Aren't you the one who said she didn't know very much, so didn't have a lot to offer? :-) Dypsisdean 15:13, 20 July 2007 (PDT)
• So how do you feel about alphabetical order? And names that aren't on the Kew list as current, i.e. they have been renamed? I'm not going there now, but at some point you'll want to make some choices. For now I'll stick to spelling and punctuation.Kim 19:50, 20 July 2007 (PDT)
• Well alphabetical is good, of course. If they aren't in the right order, it's just an oversight (euphenism for screw up). And the renamings, unaccepted names, synonyms, etc. will be case by case, I guess. There is a space for synonyms in the PalmBox. Do you have any idea how to do one of those? I will show you (maybe in a screencast) if you want to know. Maybe we could make a page for things to check out later. We could make notes there. That way we wouldn't forget. Dypsisdean 21:04, 20 July 2007 (PDT)
• A 'Notes' page is a great idea. Start with Butia pimo and Calyptrocalyx kainlas. These are nowhere to be found on the Kew list. I can understand things like special variety names or variegated forms not showing up, but I don't know what to make of these two. And I still haven't made it to Dypsis yet! That's going to be interesting.... So are Calamus species ugly palms or something? There are a million of them on the Kew list, but none in Palmpedia. Just made me curious. : ) Kim 21:23, 20 July 2007 (PDT)
• Man Oh Man, I bet you had no idea what your 'little project" would turn into once you got started. :-) I sure didn't. I see what you are going through. I thought it was nice that Geoff named most of his photos when he uploaded them. I was just going off his spelling when I created the palm pages for them. You're quickly turning into a species expert. Thank you very much.
• I wish everybody could pick up wiki navigation like you can. Most everyone else gives up before they even get started. :(
• As far a Calamus goes. They are great palms. I think their rambling untidy nature and "barbs" that grab at you, make them unattractive for most situations. Dypsisdean 20:51, 21 July 2007 (PDT)
• Well, it's easy, but I think I'm burned out for tonight.Kim 21:01, 21 July 2007 (PDT)
• Please notice I put a "Discussion/Note Page" at the end of the main species listing page. ACCEPTED AND PROPER NAME DISCUSSION PAGE I hope you don't mind that I put your email notes regarding your initial screenings there. If so, just sysop 'em out. You will see my suggestion that we have a 'symbol' or something to place with palms that find their way onto the list, but are not yet officially accepted by Kew. At least that way we can include names that are widely used and understood in the trade, but are not "scientifically" valid. Sort of a 'disclaimer." Do you think that's a good strategy? Dypsisdean 21:48, 21 July 2007 (PDT)
• Well it looks good to me but maybe run it by a more discerning authority, like Geoff?Kim 22:00, 21 July 2007 (PDT)

Need Sysop Input

• Hello fellow sysop. Do you speak Spanish too?
• I would like your opinion on something regarding the PalmBox. Do you think the title (Species Name at the top) looks better in standard font or italicized?
• ¡Sí, cómo no! Pues, un poco... ¿Porqué me preguntas eso?
• It probably doesn't matter as long as it is consistent throughout. I like italicized, but since it's a title, you can choose whatever looks best to you, boss.
• Question: what do the red exclamation points mean? (in Recent changes) I thought I had it figured out (unlinked pages?) but when I clicked around, that didn't seem to be it after all. When Luis creates a new page, as he described, using a search, does that create a new title for the index automatically?
• Next question: I've been using the Recent changes page to review new additions, is that the best method? I'm running out of things to do. Kim 10:06, 3 August 2007 (PDT)
• I can answer two at once. I use the recent changes as well. That's how I saw your roll back (deletion) of your comment to Luis that started in Spanish. Hablo Espanol tambien. Pero yo no se como hacer la punctuacion. :-(
• I'm not sure about the red exclamation marks. I thought you were right, until I checked it out. As near as I can tell it looks like it's every change by Luis or Geoff. So possibly it's an alert for every change not made by a sysop.
• And no, when Luis does that trick, it's a backdoor to making a new page. So a page linking to it needs to be made. He does that since he can't create a new listing for a new species.
• Don't worry, there will be stuff to do. Geoff is sending me a few thousand pics to watermark, and then we will begin uploading them. Plus, hopefully he will be adding some descriptions, etc.
• Hm, so I can't hide my edits after all. :p If you would find it useful, I can email you the key to typing the Spanish punctuation.
• A few thousand pics! All new species to enter? Yes, I will have stuff to do... : )
• Geoff is sending them to me, I will watermark them and send them back --- all snail mail, so it will be a little while. That's assuming he copied everything in a format I can use. I've had a germination article almost done for a month already. I'll try to get it done so you can spruce it up some. :-) Have you checked the freeze data that he has filled in? I haven't got around to organizing it yet, but I bet there's some species spelling errors there if you really want something to do, since you've become a species spelling expert. :)
• I could use the Spanish key strokes from time to time. However, I'm on a Mac, so I bet they aren't the same, and I'm sure I could dig them up somewhere. Have you memorized them, or do you have to look every one up as you are typing? Dypsisdean 19:17, 3 August 2007 (PDT)
• If I go to "Recent Changes" and see a change, then go there and can't see any change, I go to "History." From there you can compare the last change with the previous. That's where I could see you deleted your comments about the red exclamation. Dypsisdean 19:20, 3 August 2007 (PDT)

BTW --- Are you using the "Watch this page" feature? Dypsisdean 19:21, 3 August 2007 (PDT)

• Hfff. Mac superiority complex. Ok....  ; ) Oh, yes, I have them all memorized. Me and Rain Man. If I used them all the time, maybe; but the need is rather infrequent.
• Oh, right, the freeze data... I left it alone. It's going to be massive because he mentions species that aren't on the list yet, but that I figured will show up eventually. (Are they all going to be hot-linked? And after the last snafu, I didn't want to trip over his work. His spelling looks pretty good anyway. Species spelling expert, you flatter me. I see you working. I will take a look. (See, you always get what you want.)
• Re: Watch this page-- I have used it, but not consistently. Besides, it's no fun to watch things that don't change.Kim 19:54, 3 August 2007 (PDT)
• Mmm. Ok, I looked at several pages of the SZS, and we have the problem of unaccepted names. For example, Brahea nitida is mentioned, but it is a synonym of Brahea calcarea. Do you want me to insert (syn. of Brahea calcarea), or ??? I expect this scenario to repeat again and again, so we should establish a set method. Kim 20:52, 3 August 2007 (PDT)
• Hmmmm, Let me give it some thought. Your question got me thinking about some other things. Like how to integrate the SZS in with everything else via links. More importantly, I am going to need to do a little work on the search feature and how it really works. For example, if someone is looking for the hardiness of a particular species, as it is now, they will have to scan through the list looking for it. Not very effecient. So a link to the specific zone page from the species page seems obvious. And the PalmPages have the PalmBox entry for synonyms already. And the PalmBox also has the Hardiness space that can be a link to the Zone Page. I'll experiment with the search, because it would be nice if the search was totally functional. I think I am beginning to understand why there are these things called 'Namespaces.' They may be there purely for the search feature. For example, you could search strictly within a namespace, say for Hardiness, for H. belmoreana, and it would only return the references in the Hardiness namespace. If so, I need to recreate the SZS in it's own namespace. At any rate, we need to be consistent with the Main Online Reference, and we need to keep track of synonyms in the PalmBox on that page. As far as linking and searching, I'll give it some thought.
• I don't think I clearly answered your question. I think, at this point, we should take any synonyms in the SZS and change them to the accepted name, and place that synonym into the PalmBox on that species' PalmPage. That way all searches will be uniform. And I believe a search for the synonym should still yield a result to that species PalmPage. I'll play around, and see how it all works. Dypsisdean 13:27, 4 August 2007 (PDT)
• I'd have to make a chart to figure out all the possibilities for interlinking. It's going to end up like a spider web, except more complicated. Until you have a handle on how you want things integrated, I will do only basic edits in the Survivability Index, i.e. spelling, italics, metric, and F/C conversions. Next run through I'll work on verifying all the names, changing out the synonyms to the palm box, and lastly, establish links, because by then you'll have it all figured out. Sound ok? So eventually all palms show up in both the main index and the survivability index and are all cross-referenced? Very impressive. Better let Geoff know I'm dogging the names, or he might go back and put them in again, thinking he accidentally left them out or they disappeared.
• One more question: how long before this shows up in google searches? I did a search today on Hyophorbe indica (planted mine today), and found three wiki listings, one in German, all with the same photo, but not the Palmpedia, at least not on the first 3 pages of results. Just curious.
• Roger all that. I would imagine the chances of you and Geoff working on the same project at the same time would be slim. Especially now that you are both watching out for each other. :)
• To verify, when I was talking search, I was referring to the search witin the wiki. That is, the search box to the left. I think you knew that. However, Re: Google searches --- That is a very difficult question. Google keeps their criteria for searching secret so people don't 'artificially' manipulate it. For example, if it depended on the number of hits, then it would be easy to write a program that would just visit a particular site all day long. Suppossedly, one of the main criteia is the number of people that click through to you from a popular site that has linked to you and visa versa. In other words it's a complicated series of algorithms, that is top secret. They share some of it, and change it constantly to (as they say) keep it pertinent. There are companies that advertise they can move you up in the rankings. Some I suppose are legit, some not, some can help, others probably not.....I think the short answer is time and traffic.
• As far as H.indica goes. We have very few (if any) written references to it. In fact, I think I don't think we have the whole name - Hyophorbe indica - anywhere. Maybe in the SI. For this reason, I may have made a mistake in abbreviating the species in the Palm Pages like H. indica. That is one reason I am trying to start off the descriptions with the full name. And the full name in the PalmBox should help as well. H. indica has no text, so no references. :( BTW --- feel free to create a PalmBox on any page that doesn't have one. That would help get the names out there until we get more descriptions. I know you could figure it out. Luis made a nice help page here. http://palmpedia.net/wiki/index.php/Help:Palmbox Dypsisdean 12:45, 5 August 2007 (PDT)

Palmbox Info

• Thanks for your edit in my H. indica effort. I have a lot to learn about formatting. (rolling eyes) I realized just now I've been confusing two pages, the Species Zone Scale/SZS and the Survivability Index/SI. Does the Survivability Index replace the SZS? I'm a little confused because the hardiness info I put in the H. indica Palmbox links to the SZS, which doesn't show up on the Main Page. I don't know how the link happened. Also the link just goes to the whole index, not to the palm name in question within the text, so a user would still have to look through every zone to find the one palm. (To be clear, this is not a complaint, I'm trying to figure out how to make it work better.)Kim 13:28, 6 August 2007 (PDT)
• Feel free to complain, as I would only take it as the constructive type. :)
• Give yourself some credit. You are picking up this editing stuff at a brisk pace. The Palmbox is a "different animal" when it comes to editing. The wiki rules no longer apply. The rules are dictated by how the code for the box was written. For example, Luis made it so just entering the file (photo) name would automatically size it, and recognize it as an image without having to include any wiki markup. He is still fine tuning the code. FYI --- Palmbox discussion
• You will see that I have started to talk with Luis about links to the SI from the Palmbox. Your link was probably generated by the code within the box. I will check that out. As you noted, it will be important to have that link go to the page (zone) pertaining to that palm, and not the main SI page. And yes the SI is replacing the SZS. This was a reluctant change on my part recognizing that one size wouldn't fit all. Therefore the Med and Sub distinctions. And Geoff keeps mentioning the importance of humidity, but I didn't want to further complicate things with a desert zone. So I thought a "Survivablity Scale" with hardiness being the main criterion, and then qualifications for other things related to survivabilty that may be unique for a particular palm like soil, sun/shade, "wet feet," hot/dry lovers, etc. Dypsisdean 14:04, 6 August 2007 (PDT)
• Kim, Don't freak about your H. indica page. I put something there for Luis to see that messed up the Palmbox. So it is intentional for now. Dypsisdean 22:22, 6 August 2007 (PDT)
• It looks different this morning than it did last night. : ) Not freaking.
• I looked at the Survivability Index in more detail; it doesn't appear ready for editing yet. Are you guys still experimenting with formats? Kim 08:01, 7 August 2007 (PDT)
• So far, except for the very beginning, that is all Geoff's work. I took his MSI 1A & 1B and tried to make a workable format, hoping he would follow the same outline in the rest. I don't think he felt comfortable (or didn't notice) arranging things in that format. So I intend to go through it and make them all like 1A & 1B. Dypsisdean 13:22, 7 August 2007 (PDT)
• I received about 3500 photos from Geoff last night. I watermarked them and sent them back. So there will be many more uploads to list, proof, and arrange soon. Dypsisdean 13:23, 7 August 2007 (PDT)
• Luis fixed that SI code, so you may not have even seen the weirdness on the H. indica page. We can now enter a MSI=x and a SSI=x and it will link to the page for that designation. Dypsisdean 13:33, 7 August 2007 (PDT)
• The palmbox looked really wide last night, normal today. I moved the link from 2A to 4A -- it's so perfect, that's exactly what I was hoping you meant, very cool. I like your format (as in MSI 1A & 1B) because it's easy to find the palm names, nice and clean, KISS concept. I expect I'll have time this evening to work on things, so I'll start with checking the names in that section unless there is something else you'd rather I do.
• 3,500 photos, whew. That's awesome. (choke) Any idea how many names? Kim 14:50, 7 August 2007 (PDT)
• No idea. Of course there are many multiples of the same palm, and a lot that we already have, and I haven't had a chance to view them all. If you care to assist in getting them to the right pages, you're hired. :-) It's no more complicated than copying and pasting the Image tag to the proper location after they get uploaded. The new ones of course, need a new page created. If you do choose to volunteer, we should have a strategy so as not to duplicate each other's work. If you would prefer not to get involved, don't hesitate to decline the offer. :-) You are already providing much needed assistance. Dypsisdean 15:27, 7 August 2007 (PDT)
• A trivial picky question --- Do you think "Survival Index" sounds better than "Survivability Index?" Dypsisdean 15:30, 7 August 2007 (PDT)
• In the opinion of one who can be trivial and picky, yes, much better! Kim 15:36, 7 August 2007 (PDT)
• Now that I think about it, 'survivability' sounds like what you'd measure after a nulcear blast. Kim 21:10, 7 August 2007 (PDT)
• After that winter you guys had, maybe that's the more appropriate term. :-)
• What do you like better Survival Index or Survival Scale? Dypsisdean 22:16, 7 August 2007 (PDT)